Is it too late?

[bullmn]

I received a dog last year from a person who thought they had time for himand found out they did not. He was free so I do not have any money tied up into him other than the normals. Problem I am having is that he will not hold. I have tried getting in the water with him, but as soon as his feet touch the bottom. he drops. Is it too late for him? He will be 2 in Oct. When we are on land, he does the same thing, will not hold once he gets within 10 oor so feet. What should I do?

[ducksmasher]

very typical of a dog that has not been trained properly. You may need to put a collar on him (not a electric) a regular collar, get another piece of rope abou 3 feet in length. Loop it through the collar so you are holding both loose ends. Have your dog heel and sit. Throw a bumper a short distance. Remember you are hanging onto the dog with the rope through the collar. If he tries to break to have control and tell him to "Stay". You will have to do this quite a bit until the dog understands what you expect of him. Once you think he is steady, make him heel, sit and stay. Toss a bumper a short distance, if he stays put, give him the release command and just let the rope slip through the collar like it was never there.

For making him hold.... put on your waders, when he comes back with the bumper or bird and he drops it..... you approach him in a deliberate manner, yes go into the water if necessary , tell him "NO" and put the bird back in his mouth. If he drops it, put it back in his mouth again. I had the same problem with my lab at the beggining, now she holds like a champ and is steady as a rock.

Sounds like your dog may lack confidence and doesn't really understand what is expected of him. NO IT'S NOT TOO LATE. Hope that helps. And no your dog doesn't have to be forced fetched to do this either. I have a 4 year old lab and an 18 month old chessie. Niether have been forced fetched and they know exactly what to do, no questions asked. Repition and consistency on your part is the key. When your dog knows that it is not acceptable to drop the bird, then they won't, but you have to teach them first. It can be tough going but it has to be done.

[legacyshooter]

if you want a properly trained dog you need to force fetch him. Basic obedience should come first (sit,heel,come). Force fetch is later. Good obedience training is a must. The time to FF a dog depends on the dog. Sometimes it is quick and some times it is slow. There are a lot of good books out there to read. I recommend "Smartworks" by Evan Graham. Join a local club. Lots of good advice can be had from there. Good Luck

[ducksmasher]

I have to totally disagree with legacyshooter, you do not have to force fetch your dog to be a good retriever. I just showed you two good examples and I trained both of them without force fetching and it's not because I was lucky with the dogs I got. The mentality that force fetching is a MUST is just not true. You r dog should want to retreive and hold not forced into it because if he doesn't do it then he gets zapped with an electric collar or something else where you just make your dog do it because if he doesn't he knows what's coming. Force fetching is not necessary with every dog and it should not be the first thing used to get the dog to hold.

[HRK]

a good dog training book is gun dog,you still have some time to work out this problem on holding ,use strong reinforcements and repetiotions. my self i would use an e collar. if you have a large yard or field have your dog in holding position and start to walk away facing your dog and use the command as your walking away and reinforce the command , if he breaks start in the same spot again doing this till he gets it if not start useing an e collar right away, just to let him know who's boss. my lab will hold at 150yds with one command till i call him back the longest ive tried this has been 15 minutes .need any more help (P.M.) me and i will call you with some more help

[hammer007911]

A great example of force fetching and the need for it is when you send your dog for anything it will bring it back.

How many times have you seen a "great dog" not retrieve a certain species of bird? My South Dakota buddies dog would retrieve everything but blue wing teal. He always said he does not like them.

My other buddies dog will not fetch crows.

Force fetching simple teaches a dog you go and fetch for me what ever I tell you to.

How many hunt tested dogs are not force fetched? 1%

You can have a great dog who is not force fetched but it is rare and more work to do then force fetching.

Hammer

[bullmn]

Thanks alot for all the info. This dog does not have a problem wanting to fetch, he just will not hold the trainer until I command him to drop. He almost acts like he is mad at it sometimes. He will fetch every time and retrieve, but he just will not hold for me. I have been right in the water with him and that does not make a difference. Like I stated before, as soon as his feet feel bottom, he drops. If we are in deeper water he will hold. Im confident he knows what to do, he just does not do it. I am not a trainer, but I have taught him to do thee basics in just a short amount of time and he does really well with those items. Its just this last one that I am having trouble with. Any thoughts on breaking him of shaking the dummy. He does not do it real bad but I dont want him to do it. Thanks

[hammer007911]

Never ever this is definatly the one place I will use the word never.

Never play tug a war with any dog period.

If it does bother you and you want the dog to bring you the bird with out dropping it my suggestion is to have some one force fetchit for you. Find a local trainer and in 7-10 days they can him at 100% for you on the hold thing. It will be the best 150 bucks you spend.

Hammer

[ducksmasher]

You have to realize that when he retreives in deep water he has to hold it and put tension on the bumper or bird to hold it as he swims, when he gets to shallow water where his feet touch down he releases because the tension is off his jaws now. You have to stuff the bumper back into his moth immediately and tell him to "HOLD". if he drops it, you put it back in his mouth and say HOLD. It takes a little bit but he will hold, especially when you don't give him the opportunity to get away with it.

You also don't need an e collar to train him to hold, e collars are not for negative stimulation. If you use the e collar incorrectly you could make your dog soft and not want to retreive at all. You need to be careful with e collars.

[hammer007911]

You also don't need an e collar to train him to hold, e collars are not for negative stimulation. If you use the e collar incorrectly you could make your dog soft and not want to retreive at all. You need to be careful with e collars.

This is great advice.

Hammer